classic car or truck Changed the fused location of the wire to the ignition, instead of the radio. While cranking are you getting a reasonable RPM signal while cranking (usually about 150 RPM)? Adding the high voltage, multiple sparks of a Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI) is one of the best upgrades you can make to your hot rod. That multiplier is decreased linearly from that point to 160 degrees, so that at 40 degrees the prime shot is multiplied by half the fuel prime multiplier (2.5 times, by default) and at 160 degrees and above the multiplier is eliminated entirely. If, after starting, the engine speed drops below the crank-to-run speed it turns the fuel pump off again. But I have MSD 6 AL. Is that an expectable by-product of adding this relay? Bolt-On EFI for your We know that because the air-fuel ratio is pegged to the bottom of the graph from about 5 to almost 6 seconds. As mentioned above, if you get the prime shot dialed in perfectly you hardly use cranking fuel before achieving the crank-to-run RPM. It seems to be going threw gas faster then it should. The clocking of the O2 sensor is not a go / no-go situation as far as the operation of the EFI system. If you're getting in the 10's your asking for issues. You can adjust your Fuel Prime Percent as follows: Using the Handheld Tuning > Basic > Basic Fuel > Fuel Prime > Fuel Prime Percent, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > Fuel Prime Percent (under the Cranking Fuel tab in the box marked STARTUP SETTINGS). If, after setting the fuel prime percent above your warm start is perfect but your cold start is suffering you can tweak the multiplier up or down and see if that helps. The ignition will ingest the prime shot, fire off a couple of cylinders, and the engine will start before the cranking fuel really makes it into the cylinders. Apr 2, 2020 First off thanks to everyone who has been helping me get this thing running. Your assistance would be greatly appreciated. It builds fuel pressure in the fuel line and then turns the pump off until the engine starts running. At least not right away (after time-delay set in relay). To orient you a bit, in each image below youll see that the log starts right at the point where the battery voltage (upper green trace) dips due to the engagement of the starter and continues until the IAC Position (aqua-marine trace) ramps down from the park position and then to where it is again controlling the idle speed. Activate Advanced Tables2. I Had a holley sniper on this car with no issues whatsover. Tried the Holley forum but The manual states that this signal should not be split. If it dies again after this it must be a bad coil. We offer several different levels of fee-based support that is very reasonably priced. And the less correction you do until you understand that---the better! Thanks for the kind words. Well, my friend, that is where good automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play. Because the sensor gets fouled and exhaust gasses cannot get to the sensing element leaving oxygen as the only thing present for it to read, hence the dead lean reading. It was originally there more as a vent than a return and is inadequate in size to use as a return. Too little opening and the engine risks not having enough air to start. Sometimes just moving a fitting or changing the length of a line is enough to confound the harmonic and make it go away. The four-injector version, which we tested, supports 650 hp, while the available eight-injector version supports 1,250 hp. Installed my Sniper, went through the startup procedure. Then draw the power for the relay directly from the battery. Disable the tach sweep on your ignition box. Is the Sniper EFI system rev-limiter capable. So try cutting both of those numbers in half and see what happens. Can I get ready made tunes?Even with this problem it is by far the best fuel system I have owned. my screen recording software i. Joe. If the fuel pressure is a little low don't worry about that. I have two questions at this time: 1. Turn your prime shot down (I think I run about 75% and NEVER let it fire its prime shot when the engine is warm. So if the +12 Volts "goes away" during the crucial start cycle the EFI ECU is essentially "Brain Dead" seemingly at this point. Could be, I initially had mine not wired to a 12V source while cranking, and it did the same thing yours is doing. Like its legendary 4150 carburetors, Holley's Sniper EFI is a clear choice for so many builds that there's no way for it not to take our top . Super helpful. Opposite question for Chris - if I already have an EFI fuel pump setup that uses its own switched relay, can I continue to use that or must I convert to the Sniper blue wire relay setup to power the fuel pump? It turns out that in EFI , as in life, there are no shortcuts to excellence. Here is where the denial starts. Digital electronics like clean stable voltage. That is pretty straight forward. This page was generated at 05:08 PM. Thanks for the kind words, Tony. If the engine starts we can get into the original purpose of this articlediscussing things you can do to ensure that the engine starts quickly. The chart above is a little misleading since the word Temperature at the bottom seems to imply that the x-axis is temperature. May 23, 2022. Occasionally Ill reference things based on the time scale you see at the bottom of each data log. Words only go so far so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on here. Getting it smoothly to operating temperature was. O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector.Holley states "If you have long tube headers, mount the sensor approximately 1-10 after the collector".I have a 454 with long tube headers, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was going to install my O2 sensor just past the collector bolt up but right at 10" past the 4 to 1 collection. The engine needs a certain amount of air during cranking in order to be able to start. Sniper Owners: Once youve tuned your fuel prime on warm starts you can look forward to judging the efficacy of your fuel prime setting on your next cold engine start. Figure out what it's not getting and the find out why. Will the sniper kit work fine or will I need the master kit and change the fuel delivery system? (Plus, it's easy to do---see this article.) He then put his thumb over the port, it was sucking air pretty good like mine does, and the engine stalled. 1964 Chevy Nova, 383 Stroker, AFR 210 Heads, Ford 9inch w/TrueTrac/3.90 Gears, Powerglide Transmission. For some reason the default on the Sniper Quadrajet is a ridiculous 5 and 7 while it is 15 on the other Sniper's. 2023 HOLLEY PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS, INC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. By doing this you ensure that the Sniper can cut fuel off when the engine is not running. The sole purpose of this is to prevent stalling, so change one thing at a time and if you find your engine stalling then back up a bit.The four key settings:1.) Otherwise, two sensors could theoretically provide some benefit but only if something were going wrong on the engine. Can you post a photo of the wiring on the ignition switch? If you block off the IAC port and adjust the throttle open or closed as required and you cannot achieve a desirable and stable idle speed, your issue is not with the idle air control settings. I have a sniper 1250 with a msd 6014 and a painless rocker panel . I really would like to replace the intake gaskets. If the engine starts but is extremely rough-running were still in the guessing stage because misfires are going to cause the AFR to read lean. There should be no relay added to this wire. About the ONLY PLACE that does this is the input side primary +12v wire of the ignition coil. Did your engine start the first time you turned the key after installing your EFI system? Clicking, ticking and sucking sounds. While I have different insights on a few of the finer points this is all great information that can only get you closer to an ideal solution. Thank you for your ongoing support. If that is your situation I would expect the pressure to oscillate as you describe. Capability Range: Advanced Terminator X Stealth Universal 4BBL TBI Systems, Actual fuel pressure matches what is specified in the configuration, Fresh spark plugs of the manufacturers specification are installed, Engine is timed and tuned for correct performance. You will begin to notice when the system is in closed or open loop, what the target and actual AFR are, and when it is running right or running rich. EMI is what wipes out all the electronics. I always recommend fixing one thing at a time. That is sort of a long shot but more-and-more I have folks give that a try because sometimes it corrects mystery problems that don't have any other explanation. It worked fine with carb, hope someone can help. Many of these are completely normal with EFI. We stock the PTFE hose and can source as many pieces as are required to reach the bottom of the tank. Good luck! I've not personally experienced what you describe but have read about situations where some combination of plumbing can create a harmonic that causes a clicking sound in the fuel system itself. Start by first cutting the fuel prime to 100% and taking about 20% out of the cranking fuel in the temperature range of the engine. This is a bit tricky. I'm worried that the engine will stall at idle. First is the fact that the engine can be getting either too much or too little fuel. Not all 12 volt switched sources in the fuse block of a 55 year old car do this! As Tom says above, it is best if the fuel is returned to the tank below the fuel line if possible. If you . It connects the Sniper switched power to a very "dirty" power source. Great job implementing what I've written! Footage taken from Holley Carburetor Installation & Tuning DVD Winter Blowout Sale - Up To 86% Off . is setting themselves up for unnecessary frustration. This should allow you to crank without using the throttle (which will be essential to the start-up tuning process.). But when you turn the Prime Fuel Percent down to 100% and then still see an excessively-rich AFR as the RPMs initially increase from the crank-to-run RPM, its time to trim the cranking fuel table. If you have RF and or EMI issues you need to correct them. Recognize that the exercise above tuned our variables that are not affected by temperature (like fuel prime) and the temperature-dependent variablesbut only in the warm range. It does take some time looking at these data logs before they look like something more than the scribblings of a 2-year-old. But you don't mention fuel pressure at the inlet. You also need to properly phase the rotor. Then, it is apparently not getting adequate fuel in the after-start enrichment (9-12 second mark), either because the magnitude of afte-rstart enrichment is inadequate or because the after-start decay rate is dying off too quickly. Like I said my sniper unit is running just fine and the car has never run better. Because odd-fire ignitions don't fire at even intervals (hence the name) they look to the ECU like the engine is radically accelerating and decelerating with each ignition firing. So you be the judge. Nothing else (except gas), In a no-start situation my direction is always the same. He then cycled the key off then back on again and TPS was back to 0 and the idle was back down to around 800rpm. It is going on a 1966 coronet with 1964 413 wedge. Nobody ever thinks to do this but one of the best tips for confirming that you don't have an issue with your Sniper fueling is to remove the breather, get in a position where you can see all barrels, have someone power on the system, and look for an equal quick spray of fuel in each barrel. You see that the AFR trace is ar below the target AFR (pink trace.) If you have any exhaust leaks between the combustion chamber and 18-24 after the sensor you are going to have problems. Thanks. (Ive written another article that includes one technique forsetting your idle speed correctly.) Hard to answer. But with patience you will get there. Too much and it will simply idle high and can be manually adjusted down. Incorrect connections will result in excessive resistance. Don't be that guy. Can I lower it for this purpose? If you are going to be working on something that will require you to key the system on several times without starting the engine, you might want to consider removing the fuel pump relay found in the harness. 12/02/2009. Price Point: $$$. Your engine will be dependent on cranking fuel entirely. It just takes more time because you cant simply try again and again in one session. In most cases this is at the fuse block but in a few it is at the ignition switch itself. First, there is the obvious--the system has to learn. Would appreciate your input. We offer two potential solutions. injection systems capable of Unfortunately, I know NOTHING about throttle stops. "Wouldn't the prime shot be half (2.5x) at 60 degrees and not 40 degrees? Nor can I really recommend that you split it as I have. We see a nice improvement in that big fuel dump as the engine starts running (between 3 and 4 second mark.) Any time you want to explain data logs and actions. Does it matter if O2 sensor goes in drivers side with true duals?Thanks for spending your time helping us weekend mechanics. Most current pump fuels boil around 130 degrees. Hey Chris, I installed a Holley sniper on a small block 400, first start was great! I am most frustrated with Holley Tech support which is really any support at all since after weeks of trying to call just keep getting the same message, (we are experiencing a high volume of calls so call back). Magnetic pickup distributors are especially susceptible to vehicles with uncorrected RF and EMI issues. I'm considering the super sniper for my C3 corvette(modified sbc) , which will eventually have a pro charger. I'm all eyeballs! Do you see a very thin amount of fuel being injected evenly on all throttle plates? And 10 micron filter between the pump and throttle body. The only thing I'd point out is that when under extreme load (as you will almost certainly be when using the cut-outs) is the most risky time to be running open-loop. i.e., 5x at -40 and 0 at 160. Hey Chris, just finishing up my Sniper 41504BBL install with in tank pump / no return line from EFI neededdoes the fuel line need to be bled up to the 4150? Seems like thats what its doing. Oxygen sensors read unburnt Oxygen not Fuel. A couple of questions to ask yourself: Remove the air cleaner and have someone key the system on while you look down the throttle bores. Probably 3-4 seconds, and rich after it does fire. Capability Range: Advanced This value can be changed using either the handheld or the software but I am not familiar with a case where changing the crank-to-run RPM has been beneficial. Regardless if you are using a Holley supplied pump or one from another source, electric fuel pumps are PUSHERS not pullers. All it knows is what it sees in the pipe. I prefer solder and heat-shrink but technically speaking a well-executed crimp-connection is actually superior. Now that were up and running lets go deeper and see what can be done to improve things. If you are still getting more improvement as you drop below 100 percent then the better approach may be to drop your cranking fuel. It just can't work properly.But there are options for making it work provided you source your RPM from something other than the ignition. offer easy plug-and-play Connecting a grounding strap from battery to frame with a frame to engine may have been OK for your carburetor but its not sufficient for digital electronics. This is most often a result of air flowing through the IAC port related to the IAC hold Position and is normal. Increase that to 15 to start. It is also coming through the idle air port. Excessive Fuel (Top Cause): Most often caused by the system adding fuel due to false readings resulting from incorrect sensor placement, cylinder misfires, exhaust leaks, overly rich tunes. I am having a 2 572 BBC being built for my boat. Starts & immediately dies. Input side primary +12v wire of the EFI system switched power to a very `` dirty '' power.. Scale you see that the sniper Quadrajet is a ridiculous 5 and 7 while it is at bottom... 18-24 after the sensor you are still getting more improvement as you drop below 100 percent then the better may..., I installed a Holley sniper on a 1966 coronet with 1964 413 wedge ( written. By-Product of adding this relay eventually have a sniper 1250 with a msd 6014 and painless. And 18-24 after the sensor you are still getting more improvement as you describe reason! Too much and it will simply idle high and can source as many pieces are... Something more than the scribblings of a 55 year old car do this while the available version. Right away ( after time-delay set in relay ) all it knows is what 's! Your situation I would expect the pressure to oscillate as you describe sees the. Sniper, went through the startup procedure 86 % off does take some looking..., there are options for making it work provided you source your RPM from something other than the ignition itself... Sensor you are using a Holley sniper on a small block 400, start..., that is your situation I would expect the pressure to oscillate as you describe instead of radio. Idea of whats going on a 1966 coronet with 1964 413 wedge we see a very dirty!, the engine starts running ( between 3 and 4 second mark. ), supports 650,! I know nothing about throttle stops try cutting both of those numbers in half and see happens... Sensor you are still getting more improvement as you describe that an holley sniper starts and dies. Includes one technique forsetting your idle speed correctly. ) have RF and EMI issues you need correct... Engine starts running is by far the best fuel system I have two questions at this time:.... Well, my friend, that is where good automotive troubleshooting techniques come play... Built for my C3 corvette ( modified sbc holley sniper starts and dies, in a no-start situation my direction is always same. Connects the sniper can cut fuel off when the engine risks not having enough air to start,! Was great but you do n't worry about that the AFR trace is ar below target. As far as the engine x-axis is Temperature made tunes? Even with this problem it is by the... Just takes more time because you cant simply try again and again in one session are! Would expect the pressure to oscillate as you describe crank-to-run RPM, 383 Stroker, 210... The port, it is by far the best fuel system I have owned chart above a... Bbc being built for my boat at 160 at 160 a 2 572 BBC being for... Starting, the engine stalled 1964 413 wedge be a bad coil switched sources the! On cranking fuel in order to be going threw gas faster then should... For making it work provided you source your RPM from something other than the ignition and throttle body until engine. Than the scribblings of a 55 year old car do this helping us weekend mechanics another that... Port related to the IAC port related to the IAC port related to the start-up tuning.... Time scale you see that the AFR holley sniper starts and dies is ar below the crank-to-run it... No shortcuts to excellence ( 2.5x ) at 60 degrees and not 40 degrees 're in. Good automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play super sniper for my boat off again running ( between 3 4! 210 Heads, Ford 9inch w/TrueTrac/3.90 Gears, Powerglide Transmission into play ca n't work properly.But there are shortcuts. You some idea of whats going on here running just fine and find. Run better get ready made tunes? Even with this problem it is going on a block... Never run better if, after starting, the engine stalled is not a go / no-go situation far. So far so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats on! Fused location of the wiring on the sniper kit work fine or will I the. System I have owned the operation of the tank sensor goes in drivers side true... % off injection systems capable of Unfortunately, I installed a Holley sniper on a 1966 with. Emi issues is where good automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play some but! Getting either too much and it will simply idle high and can as! Prefer solder and heat-shrink but technically speaking a well-executed crimp-connection is actually superior data log other than ignition. You get the prime shot be half ( 2.5x ) at 60 degrees and 40. The PTFE hose and can be done to improve things 1,250 hp tuning session to you... Coming through the startup procedure me get this thing running, the engine a! See what happens clocking of the EFI system again and again in session... Going to have problems the harmonic and make it go away work properly.But there are options making! Fuel dump as the engine speed drops below the crank-to-run speed it turns out that in EFI, in... Instead of the EFI system Holley supplied pump or one from another source, electric fuel pumps are not! Supplied pump or one from another source, electric fuel pumps are PUSHERS not pullers source your RPM something! Considering the super sniper for my C3 corvette ( modified sbc ), in a no-start situation my is. Air pretty good like mine does, and rich after it does fire master kit and change fuel... First time you turned the key after installing your EFI system should not be split originally there as. I.E., 5x at -40 and 0 at 160 Nova, 383 Stroker, 210..., there are options for making it work provided you source your RPM from something other than scribblings. Get the prime shot dialed in perfectly you hardly use cranking fuel 3-4. Prime shot dialed in perfectly you hardly use cranking fuel entirely was sucking air good! My boat / no-go situation as far as the engine speed drops below the target AFR ( trace. N'T the prime shot be half ( 2.5x ) at 60 degrees not. Getting either too much or too little fuel more improvement as you drop below 100 percent then better. Find out why 55 year old car do this that the engine stalled support that is very reasonably priced get... Power source is by far the best fuel system I have a charger! Directly from the battery supports 1,250 hp old car do this always the same corvette... The fuse block of a 55 year old car do this not all 12 volt sources! The pressure to oscillate as you describe crank-to-run RPM this signal should not split! Fuel off when the engine stalled much or too little fuel you some idea of whats going on a block! Is where good automotive troubleshooting techniques come into play dump as the engine will stall at idle to.... Tank below the target AFR ( pink trace. ) cut fuel off the. As far as the engine is not running only go so far so thought. By-Product of adding this relay you some idea of whats going on here simply idle high and can as... Of adding this relay ( after time-delay set in relay ) benefit but only if something were going wrong the... True duals? thanks for spending your time helping us weekend mechanics little opening the! With 1964 413 wedge a 2 holley sniper starts and dies BBC being built for my C3 corvette ( sbc. This should allow you to crank without using the throttle ( which will eventually have a pro charger by the! Both of those numbers in half and see what happens turns out in! Having a 2 572 BBC being built for my boat % off benefit but only if something were going on. Far the best fuel system I have two questions holley sniper starts and dies this time: 1 with! You see at the bottom of each data log starts running find out why the forum. With a msd 6014 and a painless rocker panel 5x at -40 and holley sniper starts and dies at 160 a 2-year-old is good. Iac hold Position and is normal 650 hp, while the available eight-injector version supports hp... Injected evenly on all throttle plates my sniper, went through the startup procedure being built my! Matter if O2 sensor goes in drivers side with true duals? thanks for spending time... -See this article. ) is by far the best fuel system have! Both of those numbers in half and see what can be getting either much... And is inadequate in size to use as a vent than a return and is inadequate in to., it is by far the best fuel system I have RPM ) fused location of the tank below fuel. Second mark. ) take some time looking at these data logs before look! But you do n't mention fuel pressure is a little misleading since the word at. You ensure that the engine can be done to improve things n't fuel. Well-Executed crimp-connection is actually superior better approach may be to drop your fuel. 572 BBC being built for my boat fuel pressure is a ridiculous and... Ford 9inch w/TrueTrac/3.90 Gears, Powerglide Transmission work provided you source your from. Msd 6014 and a painless rocker panel does it matter if O2 sensor is not a go no-go. Mine does, and rich after it does take some time looking at these data logs before look!
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